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 What if it just doesn't fit? 
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Post What if it just doesn't fit?
What do you do when you finish up a Site Template, and your whole body says "That's WRONG!" ?
I finished a ST tonight and wadded it up and threw it in the corner without thinking and started over. Same thing with the second ST. By the third I was definitely thinking about it. I ended up crumpling six attempts at the ST and not happy with the seventh, but I realized my thinking mind was fully engaged and there was no point in going for eight. [X] and [A] seemed to have similar, but not identical elements. The way I combined them the first time was just wrong, I am convinced of that, but I couldn't get it "right" on any subsequent attempts.
I've never had this experience before. Wise and noble teachers: Does this happen to other people occasionally? What's up with that?

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Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:47 am
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hmm... did you have a lot of on mind before you started the sesisons?


Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:21 am
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You likely messed up somewhere... I would take a look at the target feedback and see where you made the mistake. If your S3 is OK, check your movements... if your movements are OK, you may have just messed up the ST.


Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:09 pm
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Nothing on my mind at the beginning of the session. (Thoughtlessness is one of my greatest assets! :oops: ) No AVs or PIs at the beginning.

Quote:
You likely messed up somewhere...
Duh...

I don't know if there will ever be any target feedback on this one. It's not all fun and games here in the goat house anymore.

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The path to perfection has only two rules:
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Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:09 pm
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Could it be that you are getting a series of unrelated symbols? Like an idea template?


Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:37 pm
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Many things are possible. On a recent practice target I was distracted by an aircraft flying over the target site. My S3 freehand sketch bore an amazing resemblance to the feedback photo of the site, but lacked any really familiar archetypes. But by the time I started S2[X] I was firmly latched on to a fast aircraft above the clouds. The ST came together fine for that one, but didn't match the S3 freehand sketch.

I could be getting unrealated symbols. I haven't seen the cue yet, so it is also possible the cue is nonsense. I'm going to slip the TRNs back into the target pool and run them again later. But I assume I made a mistake in the session somewhere

My real question here concerns my reaction to the first ST. Immediately after my right hand finished the last penstroke on the ST my left hand crumpled it up and tossed it. No thought at all. It surprised me a bit. I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this kind of behavior by the body they're using?

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The path to perfection has only two rules:
Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:09 pm
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If I understood what in the Hell you were asking, perhaps I could contribute to an answer. (Do not take drugs, Goatperson).

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Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:12 am
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By my own personal observation, the Goat God is indeed one straight Capra hircus. Tin cans are more to his liking than lab-created potions. I don't believe that the Major needs worry himself about having a Space Goat on the Forum.

May I contribute that Mr. Goat, now with a LOT of time on his hands, is doing a bit much RVing these days and needs a little break.

No. I personally have not spontaneously crumpled a ST and pitched it. But the night's not over yet.

Yes. I have finished sessions and thought they were complete crap. Then I looked at the feedback and became amazed that these were some of my best sessions. Obviously, I had no vested interest in the targets. That's the correct frame of mind to RV under. But these great sessions are not always the case. Sometimes crap is just crap.

Also, imagination has pretty much shot its wad by the time you get to the Site Template. You're only placing what you've already perceived down on paper. So at that point, you have just so many toys to play with in your toy box. Sure, you may "lean" on your unconscious to help you place the various S3 Analytical Sketches together in the correct assemblage, but the bulk of what you are working with has already passed through the gauntlet of imagination. With your declaration of AOLs, and the proper speed maintained throughout your session, you should be dealing with pretty solid and complete pieces of the puzzle by the ST.

My recommendation? See me tomorrow night for pizza and a good discussion. We're gonna let the Goat Off The Leash!

And one last shot that I just can't pass up (although I probably should...): If it doesn't fit, you must acquit!

(Doh! I'm gonna pay for that, I just know it...)

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Last edited by B-Man on Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:54 am
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Thanks for the advice, Major. No drugs, just a simple right brain-left brain conflict. I think the left brain's analytical function was monkeying with the data on its way through from the right brain to the right hand, and the right brain was just getting a point across. The left brain's a fast learner; it hasn't happened again in the two months since I posted this.

B-Man, I'll have you know that I have no more time on my hands now than I did when I worked for the great satan, (super-mega-giganto-corp-full-of-jerks-who-think-they-run-everything--yeah-they-wish!) But I am now spending that time more productively. I am looking forward to the pizza and the discussion.

_________________
The path to perfection has only two rules:
Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:18 pm
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Chartless wrote:
... Immediately after my right hand finished the last penstroke on the ST my left hand crumpled it up and tossed it ...


ok, let me get this straight. Your minding your own business, and your right hand is finishing up a session and then you look up and you see your left hand crumpling up the paper you're just finishing? Were you scared? Did you smack your left hand and say "bad hand"?

wow Goatman - that gives a new meaning to "let not the left hand knows what the right hand is doing". Are you related to Dr. Strangelove? Now he had a hand that had a mind of its own! Kind of kewl too - except when it tried to choke him.

Don't know how to advise you here - If that happened to me, besides seeking counseling, I would have done the entire session over again at a later date.

Maybe you're getting too much tin in your diet. Might want to layoff the cans for a while.


Sat Jun 09, 2007 2:11 pm
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Was I scared? Not a bit. I experienced much stranger phenomena than that after receiving a great whack up side my head 35 years ago. I found this experience interesting. Very interesting.

And I did stick the envelope back into the target pool so that I could do the entire session over again at a later date.

My original question to the wise and noble teachers of RV here in the RVCommunity forum was this: Does this happen to other people occasionally?

From the responses I have received so far, I can only assume that I am a truly unique creature here on planet Earth, experiencing truly unique experiences that other mortals may only read about. I am truly blessed.

_________________
The path to perfection has only two rules:
Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:52 pm
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You truly are unique - after all, you're a talking goat!

OMG - I laughed so hard after your last post! Thank god goats don't have Bi-opposable Thumbs so you don't have to worry about waking up some night with your left hoof trying to strangle you! LOL!


Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:07 pm
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Hi Chartless, I read with great interest as you described your left hand-right hand behaviour.

Interestingly in the first chapter (i think?) of Betty Edwards' book, "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" deals with some of this conflicting right hand-left hand behavior. It may benefit you to read it.

Apparently(according to the book!), your left hand is better connected to the right side of your brain(the RV part) and the right hand to your analytical mind, i.e. the left side. At the end of the chapter, I was left wondering whether left handed Rvers made better viewers than right handed ones. Betty Edwards also gives examples of conflicts similar to yours where the right hand and left hand behaved really strangely in experiments. The subjects in the experiment were missing a brain part or two(can't recall, some coordinating mechanism between the two spheres of the brain i think).

I do not of course know the answer to your problem, but it would be helpful to read that chapter.


Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:14 am
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Thanks for your interest, rvbasiclearner. I have read the first chapter of Betty Edwards book. She barely scratches the surface of the right brain/left brain subject. They covered it more thoroughly in my college psych 101 class (psychology for dinosaurs, Professor Og instructing). I had a particular interest, due to the fact that I was ambidextrous until I was six years old, when i suffered my first serious head injury. At sixteen I suffered a second serious head injury along with a cervical sprain. For years after that I experienced an intermittent but disconcerting phenomena where sensory info from my right hand seemed to be coming from my left hand and vice-versa. This was especially troubling when it occured while I was riding my motocycle.

Once again, my real question isn't about the right brain/left brain phenomena. I really was wondering if others ever experienced this type of thing, or if I am just as odd a goat as I seem.

_________________
The path to perfection has only two rules:
Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:19 pm
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I think if you've had a history of such behaviour, then it would be seemingly normal for yourself.

On a side but related note, I too am interested in motorcycles and am presently planning to get one (I love anything Chopper). I Rv'ed my death just to know that I won't die on the bloody thing so that I could convince my parents. Your story on the motorcycle is frightening. I hope that never happens to me lol.

BTW, were you able to ride the motorcycle easily after a while despite your weird spasms of right-left conflict? The answer may be right in your signature, begin and continue.

And you are a very very funny person.

Thank you for lightening up the posts here :D

Unfortunately I don't have an answer to your question :(, the pros could help.


Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:51 pm
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Have you checked what phase the moon is in when this happens? The gravitational pull could be affecting the part of your brain that is the centre of co-ordindination - if such a thing exists.

Either that or you have a split personality which takes control of your left hand when it wants you to stop whatever you're doing and have a beer.


Sun Jun 10, 2007 3:19 pm
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Sargon wrote:
Either that or you have a split personality which takes control of your left hand when it wants you to stop whatever you're doing and have a beer.


That part of my personality usually grabs both hands at once!

_________________
The path to perfection has only two rules:
Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:19 pm
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I have experienced what you are referring to but only in martial arts practice and sometimes in music.

It sounds to me like you are experiencing muscle memory or what Bruce Lee called motor setting. The first few times you crumpled on purpose, then when it happened automatically it seemed odd, like an automatic reflex.

According to Burce Lee, he would commit a move several times on an opponent, the 3 or 4th time the opponent was programmed to respond to it and would. He could then drop the final blow. When in a certain mind set like when practicing martial arts or music even, and I believe this also applies to RV, we program ourselves to perform a certain way without thinking, this leaves the door open for any further programming if we are not careful.

Did you close the session before you crumpled it? You may want to try a stronger disconnect from the target at the end of your ST to prevent muscle memory from thinking it is ok to react.

Just a thought.

Godspeed,
Jaybird


Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:22 pm
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JayBird wrote:
The first few times you crumpled on purpose, then when it happened automatically it seemed odd, like an automatic reflex.


The experience was exactly opposite of what you suggest. The very first crumplng was automatic, thoughtless, and unplanned, and became more deliberate with each repetition.

_________________
The path to perfection has only two rules:
Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:39 pm
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Wow, ok I guess i misunderstood.

I too am at a loss for words.

Perhaps an exorcism of that hand is in order.
Lets see, we need a young priest and an old priest and ....

Somebody call the Vatican!

Just joking. I hope you figure it out.


Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:45 pm
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Thanks. I figured it out two months ago. I was just wondering if anyone else on the forum has ever had a similar experience.

_________________
The path to perfection has only two rules:
Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:55 pm
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Chartless wrote:
What do you do when you finish up a Site Template, and your whole body says "That's WRONG!" ?


I like to use a shredder. It is very deliberate and I somehow derive a satisfaction from it.


Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:56 pm
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Chartless wrote:
Thanks. I figured it out two months ago. I was just wondering if anyone else on the forum has ever had a similar experience.


If you figured it out, please pray tell what was the answer?


Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:57 pm
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Chartless wrote:
... just a simple right brain-left brain conflict. I think the left brain's analytical function was monkeying with the data on its way through from the right brain to the right hand, and the right brain was just getting a point across.


Constructing the Site Template is the analytical mind's very last opportunity to monkey with the data, if only by combining the S3s improperly. If I maintain the same discipline and rigor through to the end of ST construction, the left hand (controlled by the right brain!) will not mutiny again. I hope.

_________________
The path to perfection has only two rules:
Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:31 pm
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Oh NO!
Its a mutiny aboard the SS Tragos Cerebellum.
Call the captain, (i think he wears a goatee!)


Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:46 pm
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