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 Have a ST, don't know what to do with it. 
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yes sir


Last edited by Pael on Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Apr 23, 2005 12:46 am
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I had a question about the labeling of the Elements.

In the sample student session of the Titatic sinking, Elemte [1] is explored from stages 1 through 4 as S1[1], S2[1],S3[1],S4[1].

And in this thread Ed, you said we should label S1[X1], S2[X1] etc for Element 1.
So the letter refers to the Aspect, and the number refers to the Elment OF THAT ASPECT. Is this correct?

Is this done to help group the elements under one aspect? So that we know which element is a a componenet of which aspect?

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Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:22 am
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Nevermind Ed,

upon further thinking, and re-reading your post, I think I get it. From the main ST, you label new elements, and explore each one as new sites, and each will produce new STs, and then you can label new elements at these sites, until you can get no more information.

For example, if your main target the fuel pump on the engine of an F-14 on an aircraft carrier, on your first ST, you might have the aicraft carrier, the sea, and the battle group support destoryers, cruisers etc.

Then you can label the Aircraft carrier as Element 1, and explore it.

This might produce 100 new aspects, for example the Tower, the runways, and all the aircraft. All with their STs. Say then that one of your STs is an F-14 with an X on it, then on the ST of the F-14, you label elments, such as the cockpit, the engine, the gear, the missles...and then you explore the engine, produce a new ST. And finally you can get the the fuel pump which was was the answer to your problem.

This is my understanding so far, correct me if I'm wrong.

Dreamer

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Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:57 am
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When you explore an element (e.g. "[1]") there are two methods you can use:

Method One:
page 1:
write "from the top of [1] SSBP"
do your ideogram
write S2[1]
list the percepts (textures, colors, etc....)
page 2:
write S3[1]
do an analytical sketch
page 3:
write S4[1]
(followed by the "S D AI EI T I AOL AOL/S" line across the page

Generally that will give you the data you need. Decide ahead of time how much you want to explore. More exploration may necessitate Method Two:

Method Two:
page 1:
write "from the top of [1] SSBP"
do your ideogram
write S2[1]
list the percepts (textures, colors, etc....)
page 2:
write S3[1]
do a FREEHAND sketch
label aspects of your freehand sketch with, "[X1]," "[A1]," "[B1]," etc
page 3:
write "from the top of [X1] SSBP"
do your ideogram
write "S2[X1]"
list the percepts (textures, colors, etc.)
page 4
wirte S3[X1]
do an ANALYTICAL sketch
page 5
write S4[X1]
(followed by the "S D AI EI T I AOL AOL/S" line across the page
...repeat the last 4 steps for each element ("[A1]," "[B1]," etc., from your page 2 freehand sketch and then when you're done, assemble all of those into a Site Template. Now, you have a new Site Template detailing Element [1]!!

Isn't that fun?

Now, of course, if you want to explore something in THAT site template, you label that part with an Element [2].... and keep on going!

You may find that, operationally, Method One is most commonly used.


Last edited by 24 on Thu May 05, 2005 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu May 05, 2005 5:17 pm
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A target geometry may also be desired/required. We're getting close to that discussion.

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Thu May 05, 2005 7:18 pm
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24,

thanx for clarifying that. The two "methods" you mentioned was the source of my confusion in the first place, as "method" 1 was used in the guide with the "titanic" example, while Ed mentioned "method" 2 in this thread. Hence my confusion on which is used, now I see that both can be used, depending on how much detail you wish to aquire.

I'm assuming, for method 1, you may gain even further insight, by doing a different prompt such as "from 100 ft south of [1] SSBP" or "from inside of [1] SSBP" or ""from 1 mile north of [1] SSBP"

or instead of SSBP, something should be visible can also be used I think.

And that might produce analytic sketches from various angles and perspectives.

Ed,

can't wait to leanr about target geometries!

Dreamer

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Thu May 05, 2005 10:34 pm
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Do not attempt to 'disconnect' from the target (i.e., "From 100m south of [1] SSBV," or 100m south of [1] SSBV) until we discuss target geometries and resection.

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Fri May 06, 2005 1:46 am
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Yes sir :) Will do.

So by not disconnecting you mean don't describe the target from far away? Describe it from exactly where it is located?

Like "from the TOP of X SSBP" or "from inside X SSBP" instead of "100 m South of"

would "from the LEFT" or "from RIGHT" produce different results than "from the TOP?"

thanx a lot

Dreamer

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Fri May 06, 2005 2:21 am
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It means that when you do such a movement you are disconecting from your target, in order to reconnect to achive that target geometry.

That's what I have understood, I can be wrong though.

I'm interested in learning and improving higher prompts too.

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Fri May 06, 2005 12:25 pm
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Does a drinking glass have a "left, right -- front, back/rear?" Stop now, and listen to what I said (you too, Mat). We'll cover this topic, shortly.

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Fri May 06, 2005 5:47 pm
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Thank you Ed, we are not in a hurry with this, it is just the normal excitement, I guess.

:lol:

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Fri May 06, 2005 6:10 pm
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No, but a car (and any object that is not axisymmetric in multiple axis) has a front, a back, a top, a left, a right, a bottom, it basically looks different from every direction almost. That's why I was wondering if "viewing form the left" would produce a profile view of an ojbect, while "viewing from the front" would produce a front view of the object etc.

But if this will be convered in Target Geometries, I shall wait patiently :)

Dreamer

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Sat May 07, 2005 7:11 pm
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Yes it does produce a profile perspective, but it must be executed correctly; there are a couple of things that can go awry if you don't understand what you are unconsciously doing.

Patience, Grasshopper...everything will become clear when you die.

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Sat May 07, 2005 9:14 pm
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Anyway, Target Geometries is explained in DVD 4. It is a good start point while we wait to treat this subject here in the forum.

In the meantime I will review DVD 4 and I'll try to understand it, because I haven't practiced Target Geometries yet.

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Sat May 07, 2005 10:04 pm
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Patience it is then :)

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Sun May 08, 2005 7:07 am
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Post Me too
Greetings,

Having gone through this thread read and re read it then printing it off and
going over the relevent points with a highlighter. I believe that I have a better understanding.
I have on two occasions tried to gain a different perspective of the
target by "from 1 mile north of " etc. But after readinig this and having things
clarified, I shall refrain from this until further knowledge is aquired

Very Interesting thread

Regards


Wed Jun 29, 2005 1:43 pm
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Post Subscripts?
Earlier in this thread (near the beginning), Major Dames said
Quote:
Resume the session (don't forget to number pages) with a movement -
The most recognizable feature of [1] should be visible
Then
The most unique feature inside [1] SBV
You'll have to use subscripts

...I'm concerned, because using subscripts implies that you do an S3 Freehand Sketch. And I thought you only do an S3 Freehand Sketch when the new target takes you, "off site" (e.g. "The source of [1] SBP," "the nearest recognizable feature of...," "purpose of...," "most unique feature within 100' of [1]....," etc.)

In this example, element [1] is still "on site," is it not? Shouldn't the, "S3," be an Analytical Sketch (with no labeling) , followed by S4?

Thank you.


Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:10 pm
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Your assumption is incorrect. The viewer is shifting focus to a new, unknown target -- regardless of location -- and must first acquire archetypical contact with it (lets say a bicycle, or cracked window); a freehand S3 is required. Essentially, it is the start of another session.

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Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:28 pm
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I understand! Thank you!

I'm ready to ace the 100 question RV exam! :)


Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:56 pm
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