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 Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers 
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
I believe the term 'discerned' was used by David Roseta when cueing up a primary image reference from a website (e.g. Cnn.com/next visit/primary image discerned/target reference) or something like that

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Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:37 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Correct, I guess the idea is that when you look at the front page you will decide which is the primary photo (if there are more than one choice). The matrix knows which one you will pick and so that becomes the target.

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Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:24 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Here is David's original cue:

[xxxx/xxxx] MyNameHere / next perlustration of http://edition.cnn.com / primary image discerned / target reference

This should be a link to the whole thread:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=720


The topic of discussion revolved around using a website instead of a newspaper, which is complicated by the fact that the pictures displayed on the website may be different for different website visitors--some websites use cookies or detect a user's IP address and tailor downloads accordingly.

The newspaper cue lacks that complication. It does assume there will be only one main photo, and if there is more than one issue of the paper identified by the NAME, DAY, DATE format of the cue, it assumes all the main photos will be identical. That may be a problem sometimes.

On the other hand, David's cue for the website image assumes that the viewer, or the person whose name is placed in the MyNameHere position, will actually "perlustrate" the website. If the person named never opens or "perlustrates" that website, the cue becomes nonsense, whereas the cue we are working with requires that the paper actually be printed, but the cue doesn't require that anyone ever actually see the front page.

Don't know why, but I suddenly had an image pop into my head of a monkey chasing a weasel 'round a mulberry bush.

The point of all this is that I don't think it is necessary to add the word "discerned" to our newspaper cue. The cue does not have the MyNameHere/Next perlustration opening. The photo becomes the TRM even if none of us ever sees it.

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Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:12 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Valid point... even more poignant is "who is doing the discerning" when a group works a project like this.

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Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:48 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Quote:
who is doing the discerning" when a group works a project like this.


When chartless post the front page feedback we all will discern it.

We can keep doing the same format for the target until we are sure it does not work.


Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:02 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
I mean vis-a-vis the cue... there is no name qualifier, so who does the matrix assume is doing the discerning. My cue is junk for this problem set.

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Tue Nov 04, 2008 10:43 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
yeah, we would have to include our names.

Quote:
My cue is junk for this problem set.


true :lol:


Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:14 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
MultiLnV wrote:
When chartless post the front page feedback we all will discern it.


If I post the front page.

It did occur to me that I could have gone to the place where the photo on the front page was taken and photographed it myself. Then I could have posted those photos as the feedback for the target. Remember, the newspaper is not the target. It is only the source of the target reference material. There is no reason it has to be the feedback, except to help keep me honest.

But I like your suggestion to keep the cue as is until we prove it to be bogus. My theory is that while the matrix would not recognize the day and date as a useful temporal qualifier on it's own, it does recognize the day and date as part of the name of that day's issue. Like most theories, it's only valid until it is disproven.

My real hope is this: if it turns out to be a reliable method, we might be able to use the printing of a particular issue as an event that would itself be useful as a temporal qualifier. But we need a lot of successful trials before moving on to that next step.

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Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:55 am
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
We should keep going lets try to view two weeks in advance to have time to explore if need be.

I have been interested in seeing how my unconcious responds data wise to certain cue structures. For the past few monthes I have been able to describe calibration photos very well, both with words and sketching, so it has been very easy analysis wise. However, when something is cued the data is not so obvious and takes exploration to figure out what's going on even if the cue is simple.


Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
MultiLnV wrote:
... For the past few monthes I have been able to describe calibration photos very well, both with words and sketching, so it has been very easy analysis wise. However, when something is cued the data is not so obvious and takes exploration to figure out what's going on even if the cue is simple.


I wonder why that makes a difference for you? I find that my analysis is equally bad for both types.

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Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:45 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Here is my next proposed cue with a brand new TRN straight off the LearnRV.com random number generator:


[ 2529 / 6476 ]THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC, MONDAY, NOVEMBER 24, 2008/front page/main photo/target reference

I am expecting everyone who wants to participate to post S3, ST, and summary by Saturday, November 15.

Beginning Sunday, November 16, we can start analysis and exploration.

I would like some agreement on postulates by 19:00 UTC on Sunday, November 23 --that is noon in Phoenix.

I will post photos of the newspaper's front page on Monday, November 24. If possible I will visit the site referenced by the main photo and take additional photos for feedback purposes.

After that I'm going to take another break from this project. (Things to do, places to go, people to see.) If our results are good, I may hit it again sometime next year. If results indicate the cueing method is invalid, I'll quietly move on to the next thing and hope everyone eventually forgets what a bonehead the goat is.

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Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:22 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
As I already alluded to, it seems that there is a difference in the the way my unconcious approaches taskings which are of written cues vs a tasker who puts trns on a photograph. If you think about it though, that makes absolutly no sense considering we are viewing the site and not the reference material.

Nevertheless, I still do better when my reference is a photograph with TRN's on it in terms of sketching detail and words. For example, photograh of Obama giving speech vs cue of the same event terms of sketching and detail. Cueing it would likley cause me to miss key aspects, such as crowd, speech, man, event :) and get stuff that can not even be determinaed about the target most of the time.

Perhaps it has something to do with the perspective of the photographic reference and getting details about focus of the photograph. Cues generally do not provide a perspective to view from i.e front-back overhead etc, which may be causing me to grab stuff from all over making stuff look disjointed. Still, prompts should help mitigate that, but they do not.


Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:46 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
MultiLnV wrote:
As I already alluded to, it seems that there is a difference in the the way my unconcious approaches taskings which are of written cues vs a tasker who puts trns on a photograph.


Could it be that a photograph locks in a particular moment in time while a cue describes the entire event? That may make a difference similar to an artist trying to draw a subject sitting still versus one that is running around the room.

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Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:51 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Great chartless. I will work multiple sessions on the target and post when i finish.

Aton, it's possible, but I do not know. Oh well, we better not clutter up this thread with my problems :)


Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:57 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Chartless wrote:

[ 2529 / 6476 ]THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC, MONDAY, NOVEMBER 24, 2008/front page/main photo/target reference

I am expecting everyone who wants to participate to post S3, ST, and summary by Saturday, November 15.


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Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:59 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Summary and S3 coming in a little bit. I hope we have commonalities Chartless :oops:


For some reason I have November 19th as the ending dates for the sessions. If that was indicative of my concentration during session, then that is scary.

First session:
Image

Freehand:
Image

Second Session:
Image

Freehand:
Image


Last edited by MultiLnV on Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:33 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
MultiLnV, I'm always amazed at how much data you get. I wish I could read it as you wrote it. After you paste your readable text over your scans I'm never sure if you're covering some element of the sketch or not.

We do have some commonalities, but you have so much more data tha I got it might take a while to pull them out.

I got a little carried away this morning. First I ran a normal session--then I explored elements from my ST marked [1] and [2]. After that I did two movements using the prompts 'From 200 feet west of the site, SSBP' and 'From 200 feet east of the site, SSBP' . If you don't mind, I'm going to go ahead and post it all now.

Here are my S3, ST, and data summary:

Image


Image


Image


My exploration of element 1 and element 2:

S3[1]:

Image


S4[1]:

Image


S3[2]:

Image


S4[2]: (I mistakenly labeled this sheet S4[1] when I started it. I consider this a flaw in session structure, so I wouldn't bet money on any data here.)

Image


From 200 feet west of the site, SSBP:

S3[200' west]:

Image


S4[200'west]:

Image


From 200 feet east of the site, SSBP:

S3[200' east]

Image


S4[200' east]

Image

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Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:24 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Edit: I see a few commonalities. :) I do hope others have done this.

Chartless I had some concentration issues in my session so I am hesitant about my data. No part of the sketch is really covered up. :D


Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:47 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Well, MultiLnV, it looks like we're all on our own here.

I've been looking at these Sts, and the only data common to all three is the EI of happy and the I of man-made

All three STs share indications of at least one person being present, along with a structure of some sort. But apart from that, we don't seem to be describing the same target. I am at a loss as to how to proceed from here.

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Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:29 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
I like the fact you have AOL-Motorcycle and I have AOL/S sounds like a car, and buckle up.

Our freehand sketches are similar too. In fact part of my freehand sketch looks like your structure in your ST.

I bet my steel object in my first ST is the same thing as your circular thing

I think we should do 500 ft above the site ssbp with new freehand or from the center of the site ssbp with new freehand


Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:36 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
I don't like "from the center of the site". We could end up RVing someones lower intestine and learn nothing of value about the site. I think there might be value in "From 500' above the site SSPB."

I thought I might like to try a prompt to find the purpose of the circular thing on my ST (element 2) that you think might be the same as the "Steel Object" on yours. If we come up with similar data for that it might suggest that they are in fact the same thing.

One thing that bothers me about your two STs is the conflicting data--one has an an Intangible of indoors, the other has an Intangible of outdoors. Would you want to do explorations of elements of both STs? Or would you pick only one?

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The path to perfection has only two rules:
Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:30 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Quote:
I don't like "from the center of the site


I do not think "center' is the same thing as "inside" I think "center' means "at the heart of the site" narrowing the focus down.....correct me if I am wrong.
Quote:
I thought I might like to try a prompt to find the purpose of the circular thing on my ST (element 2) that you think might be the same as the "Steel Object" on yours. If we come up with similar data for that it might suggest that they are in fact the same thing.


Okay, I will explore my object too with with the purpose of [1] sbp and we will see what we have.

Quote:
One thing that bothers me about your two STs is the conflicting data--one has an an Intangible of indoors, the other has an Intangible of outdoors. Would you want to do explorations of elements of both STs? Or would you pick only one?

I will explore whatever you want, you're the boss.

Regarding the conflict, I am not sure it is conflicting; I think that I meant that there is outdoors and indoors at this site. This means that outside it is daytime ( but might be getting dark) however, there is some activity indoors as well. I am 90% accurate when it comes to time of day at a site(lucky me... )

I can do from 500 ft above the site ssbp on my first ST and explore the structure or man from my second ST.

It would not suprise me if you are on target on this one and I went off course.


Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:30 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
MultiLnV wrote:
I will explore whatever you want, you're the boss.


Egad. Really? Why don't you explore why the electric fuel pump in my Nissan keeps turning itself off until I pay the tow truck driver, whereupon it immediately regains proper function. :roll:


Seriously, I accept your suggestion: two explorations for each of us.

First, From 500 feet above the site SSBP.

Second, The purpose of [insert proper element number here] SBP.

We'll need to take the purpose exploration all the way out to a new ST. I suppose we should do the same for the 500' above prompt if we're going to do a new S3 Freehand Sketch also.

It will take me a couple of days to get these done. (Other fish to fry, you know.)

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Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:05 pm
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
MultiLnV wrote:
I do not think "center' is the same thing as "inside" I think "center' means "at the heart of the site" narrowing the focus down.....correct me if I am wrong.


You are correct! My humble goatness begs forgiveness. I did some checking using the search function we all love so much. I found that "From the center of the site..." is a valuable and accepted prompt, having the meaning you stated. My concerns stemmed from Ed's admonition not to use the prompt "From the center of the target..." until we have a good idea what the target is, because if the target is a person, the data can be very... "misleading."

Thanks for straightening me out on that one. And while I was searching I found some neat stuff on treasurehunting. (It can be hard to stay focused sometimes while browsing search results!)

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The path to perfection has only two rules:
Rule 1: Begin. Rule 2: Continue.

Lessons from the Petting Zoo:
Lesson 27. Puppies that spend all day yapping never really learn to hunt.


Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:00 am
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Post Re: Cueing Experiments Using Dates, Times, and Numbers
Quote:
You are correct! My humble goatness begs forgiveness.


I don't know if I can ever forgive you.

Quote:
First, From 500 feet above the site SSBP.


Since you thought that maybe we were describing different sites, this could be good. If either of us were on target and then somehow wandered to far off target, then we may be able to get back on track and have more common Site Templates.

If all else fails, at least this next ST will have cleaner labels! I will write slow and neat :)

Quote:
We'll need to take the purpose exploration all the way out to a new ST. I suppose we should do the same for the 500' above prompt if we're going to do a new S3 Freehand Sketch also.


I imploy freehand sketches on all explorations, unless I am doing SSBV.

treasurehunting? I'd like some gold, but, on the other hand, I get the sense that the world is coming to an end. The greatest treasure may be a sanctuary.


Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:40 pm
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