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 Subaspects in S3 freehand 
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Post Subaspects in S3 freehand
I just noticed sometimes in my S3 freehand, I have a group of archetypes that I feel belong together, so in the past, I have been just labeling them all with one aspect, but a better way to do it is to use, [x1], [x2], etc, or [a1], [a2], etc. Then, we have to explore all of them. I feel this will help me have a more accurate ST drawing. I can't wait to try it out.

Is this correct?

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Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:18 pm
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
I'm not sure why you wouldn't just call them X, A, B, C instead of say X, A1, A2, A3. If they really are connected it should come together at the ST.

I prefer to avoid the confusion and observe the KISS principle.

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Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:04 pm
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
I haven't watched the Master Tips Seminar DVD yet, but someone led me to believe that labeling the subaspects is mentioned in the seminar. Regardless of whether it is mentioned in the seminar or not, I think it is a solution to a problem I have been having for the past year!

If I were to hypothetically have a target of a vending machine, I may have two or three little archetype thingies in my S3 freehand sketch(a right angle, with a motion arrow and a blob inside) and I would feel so strongly that they were the same thing, I would want to put one big aspect label on all of them. If I were to do this, my ST would lose detail. If I were to label them, [X], [A], [B], instead of [X1], [X2], [X3], my ST would have them all skewed out around different parts of my page instead of connected into one thing. Maybe it's too confusing for some people to be practical at all, but to me it makes sense. I was taught to focus on one thing at a time while I'm drawing S3 analyticals. If my grouping work is done for me in my S3 freehand, I don't have to worry during my line sketches about asking myself if the S2 dimension words are all part of the same thing or if they are separated, I will be safe and secure knowing that I should portray the dimension words as one thing. Also, I will have a much easier time assembling my Site Template drawing.

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Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:43 pm
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
I can follow your reasoning, but Robot's question remains. What difference would it make which way you are labelling them, if you are going to explore them all separately? Or put it the other way around: If you are convinced that several strokes constitute one aspect, why give them more than one label? I need 2 to 4 strokes to outline a boxy structure, for instance, possibly some more for a mountain range, or a whole mess that turns out a thicket of plants later, but which becomes one aspect without me spending a conscious thought about it. O.t.o.h., I never had an S3 freehand where I drew e.g. a car with any level of detail, be it just a box plus the wheels separately. I get just one chunk at this stage. If not, then I would be pretty certain that imagination is driving me. Which happens, mind you. I may be wrong though on this, or I may have been all the time.

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Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:44 pm
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
aprilflowers,

Are you blond? You sound so blond!

There are some cases where two or more of the separate lines on your S3 Freehand Sketch are actually parts of the same key aspect. In that case you would mark them with subscripts as you describe. It isn't something you would decide intellectually the way you seem to be suggesting above. More likely it would be a complete surprise to you, (unless you are 'choosing' the aspect order of importance analytically, instead of letting your hand do the job!) after which you might ask yourself "why did my hand write X on two different things in the S3?" I know I was surprised the first time it happened to me.

There is no reason to suppose that elements of the S3[X1] and the S3[X2] belong in the same spot on the ST just because they are both X, just as there is no reason to suppose that elements of the S3[A], S3[B], and S3[C] do not belong right on top of each other or nested within and without each other on the ST just because they are separate on the S3 Freehand Sketch. For most viewers there is no orientation in the spatial and dimensional plane in the S3 Freehand Sketch. Some of the pros, like Alex, through long experience and/or great site contact gotten by correctly decoding the ideogram, can achieve this orientation in the first 15 second S3, but for most of us it just doesn't happen. How the Site Template is constructed is part of the information from unconscious. That is why you can't take a break between the last S4 and the ST construction. You must be connected to the site to "know" where everything goes. It is not a purely analytical construction.

aprilflowers wrote:
If I were to hypothetically have a target of a vending machine, I might have two or three little archetype thingies in my S3 freehand sketch(a right angle, with a motion arrow and a blob inside) and I would feel so strongly that they were the same thing, I would want to put one big aspect label on all of them. If I were to do this, my ST would lose detail.
Absolutely correct. Each archetype must have its own designation.
aprilflowers wrote:
If I were to label them, [X], [A], [B], instead of [X1], [X2], [X3], my ST would have them all skewed out around different parts of my page instead of connected into one thing.
Totally, completely, illogical, unless you are trying to decide where they go analytically instead of feeling where they go as you are supposed to do.
aprilflowers wrote:
I was taught to focus on one thing at a time while I'm drawing S3 analyticals.
No problem there.
aprilflowers wrote:
If my grouping work is done for me in my S3 freehand, I don't have to worry during my line sketches about asking myself if the S2 dimension words are all part of the same thing or if they are separated, I will be safe and secure knowing that I should portray the dimension words as one thing. Also, I will have a much easier time assembling my Site Template drawing.

I have to admit that I just don't understand this last part. Your 'grouping' isn't done in the S3 Freehand Sketch. After marking one line [X1] and another [X2], you still have to do a separate exploration on each one, just as if they were [X] and [A], you can't combine them into the same exploration. Elements (directly produced by drawing a representation of one of S2 Dimension percepts) of any S3 Analytical Sketch may be present in any other S3 Analytical Sketch and can be clues to how they all fit together.

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Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:15 pm
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
The beloved Chartless unfortunately may have come to a disagreement or a misunderstanding with me about a subject. Thank you for the long reply. Of course I am not supposed to be deciding consciously or analytically to use subaspects during S3 freehands, and I do not recall writing that anywhere in my post. It just happens to me a lot spontaneously that more than one stroke belong to the same aspect.

Chartless wrote:
aprilflowers wrote:
If I were to label them, [X], [A], [B], instead of [X1], [X2], [X3], my ST would have them all skewed out around different parts of my page instead of connected into one thing.

Totally, completely, illogical, unless you are trying to decide where they go analytically instead of feeling where they go as you are supposed to do.


Then, why has it helped me so much since I started using subaspects, why are my drawings so detailed and accurate if this is completely illogical? If you have mistakes early in the session, it is impossible to feel where everything goes in the ST. Most beginners simply engage in guesswork to create their Site Templates. Anything unspecified in the earlier stages of the session will lead to loss in accuracy and confusion later on in the session. When recording any kind of data during a session, the more focus, and the more detail you use, the better the end result will be.

Chartless wrote:
I have to admit that I just don't understand this last part. Your 'grouping' isn't done in the S3 Freehand Sketch. After marking one line [X1] and another [X2], you still have to do a separate exploration on each one, just as if they were [X] and [A], you can't combine them into the same exploration. Elements (directly produced by drawing a representation of one of S2 Dimension percepts) of any S3 Analytical Sketch may be present in any other S3 Analytical Sketch and can be clues to how they all fit together.


I don't understand why you don't understand. Do you have a goat brain or something? No I am not blond. In an S3 analytical sketch for a beginner, there is confusion and ambiguity about where to draw your dimensional representations. For me, I am sensitive, and If I don't grab my unconscious by the reigns, I will start drawing the entire target (which will lead to errors, the protocol is created for us to focus on one thing at a time, and get as much detail as possible about each aspect). I run into a lot of confusion trying to decide for example, if 'square' is connected to 'curvy, flat', or if they are separate items. If my unconscious has already coded information to me earlier in the session, in the s3 freehand, I will be less confused later in the session about how I feel my dimensions should be arranged in my analytical sketches as well as the ST.

All of this bickering is unnecessary, I was simply posting to ask a question about whether or not subaspects are permissable, and then, I went off on a tangent about why I think I need to use subaspects. In my opinion, people should only use them if they feel it is necessary. For me, it is necessary, because I need to label everything for what it is exactly, and not what it kind of is.

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Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:22 pm
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
My apologies. I should have limited myself to answering your first question:

aprilflowers wrote:
I just noticed sometimes in my S3 freehand, I have a group of archetypes that I feel belong together, so in the past, I have been just labeling them all with one aspect, but a better way to do it is to use, [x1], [x2], etc, or [a1], [a2], etc. Then, we have to explore all of them. I feel this will help me have a more accurate ST drawing. I can't wait to try it out.

Is this correct?


The answer is NO.

Ed Dames wrote:
There are even cases, albeit uncommon, where multiple targets appear (eg., several murderers), or even multiple [A]'s (eg., planets orbiting a star, where the star is the target -- in the case of let's say a binary star system with three orbiting planets, we would have two [X]'s and three [A]'s each numbered with subscripts). Regardless, it is your body that does the labeling, not you brain. Stop thinking and start RVing.


viewtopic.php?f=19&t=89

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Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:45 pm
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
Chartless wrote:
The answer is No.


You are indeed a stubborn goat.

Ed Dames wrote:
There are even cases, albeit uncommon, where multiple targets appear (eg., several murderers), or even multiple [A]'s (eg., planets orbiting a star, where the star is the target -- in the case of let's say a binary star system with three orbiting planets, we would have two [X]'s and three [A]'s each numbered with subscripts). Regardless, it is your body that does the labeling, not you brain. Stop thinking and start RVing.


In other words. If I am FEELING with my BODY that there should be subscripts, then according to protocol, I need to label them accordingly because following protocol WILL PRODUCE A MORE ACCURATE ST.

Thanks for nothing Chartless.

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Last edited by aprilflowers on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:50 pm
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
You're very welcome, aprilflowers.

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Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:01 am
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
Ed Dames wrote:
Regardless, it is your body that does the labeling, not you brain.

This I am taking home today. I realize, I always retake control after having done the freehand drawing, and then think where I want to put the labels. Aargh! No wonder I often end up with aspects in weird order.

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Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:06 am
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
I am wondering if April Flowers is taking too long, moving too fast, or moving too quickly in the S3[Site]. Only a video can answer that question. I know I was fucking it up still.

The S3[Site] is deliberate, not a bunch of ideogram like fast lines. But not too deliberate.

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Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:50 am
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
Ah, darn. I have been messing up my labels I bet. Sometimes I have two seperate, unconnected strokes, but my hand only labels one because they are same aspect. I will have to keep an eye out for this. Yeah, Kocmodpom. I used to do ideogram-esque s3`s did not work out to well. I am much better with them now, but still I think I do them too fast sometimes.


Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:02 am
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Post Re: Subaspects in S3 freehand
Hmm, I will have to make a S3 freehand vid for you soon kocmodpom. It's always fun to have my work critiqued.

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Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:35 pm
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