Hi all,

I have several urgent and important questions.(Very high priority!)

My understanding is that information in s4 comes in clusters. In S2, this information comes from all over the site, not really in a focussed deliberate manner.

In S4, you get clusters in a more controlled focussed manner as follows e.g. Target is a soccer ball- cluster of information would be, rubbery, round, hollow, leathery, small, rough, tangibles would include, object, thing, man-made; intangibles would include: play., etc- a cluster of sensory, dimensional data followed up by relevant tangibles and intangibles related to that specific aspect or sub-aspect)

When this cluster collapses or 'dries up'(unconscious stops giving you information), What happens next?

My understanding is, that if you have not been attendant to structure and rigorously identifying and 'capturing' percepts, unconscious, which is your best friend, would give you the same cluster repeated, albeit with the information you missed. (Sort of like ideogram decoding, if you decode wrongly, unconscious gives you the same ideogram, if you decode correctly, unconscious gives you the next ideogram relevant to the site)

However, if you have correctly captured what unconscious communicated, then unconscious would move to the next important aspect at the site.

And this is where the problem for me begins. I recently did a session in which my younger brother placed a glass ball inside my RV target box which is made of cardboard (cue was gotten from viewtopic.php?t=322&highlight=
Thanks ed and f_angel for asking)

In my S4(x), ideally I should describe a round, spherical, dense object. But in my descriptors, my dimensional data included things like vertical, parallel, followed by tastes, like bitter and then textural descriptors like rubbery, lumpy, soft and jumbled up within these were datum on the round spherical ball.

My earlier freehand sketch indicated a flat line which i labeled as [A] and my [X] was an incomplete almost semi-circular outline that was below this flat line. (I have a feeling, I did the s3 freehand sketch too fast, otherwise I would have completed the semi-circle)

And then later on when I moved on to S4[A] a.k.a. the cardboard box, I started getting jumbled up datum again. One relating to the box and the other to the ball.


So the problem for me is that my S4's are jumbled up blending in both aspects.

I hope that I have written clearly and articulated my problem,( its close to early morning here, and I'm all excited about getting actual real world feedback on my RV as opposed to viewing photographs).

So my questions are

1) How does unconscious give data in S4? Is my understanding of how S4 works correct?

2) Do I have a problem? (its pretty obvious, it would be an analytical nightmare)
3) How do i fix this problem?
4) And lastly, would unconscious jump to another aspect of the site e.g. from (x) to (a) if all the sub-aspects of (x) have been explored?

Thank you for your time and effort
If any clarification is required, please do ask me, as I'm eagerly wanting to fix this.

Lastly, I'm unable to scan my session presently but will try my best to find a way.

Thanks
And as always, best regards

Hi RVBL,

Hope my 3.5 cents kind of helps.

1) How does unconscious give data in S4? Is my understanding of how S4 works correct?

It sounds right to me. I know that when I stop getting data in S4 I just move on to the next aspect.

2) Do I have a problem? (its pretty obvious, it would be an analytical nightmare)

I'll answer this with a question: Do you always use an object placed in your "RV" box when you do a session? Do you do it this way often? If so it could be your unconscious mind is just getting bored with the "stuff in the box" RVing method.

3) How do i fix this problem?

If #2 is correct probably just "mix it up" a bit and try some different targeting methods

4) And lastly, would unconscious jump to another aspect of the site e.g. from (x) to (a) if all the sub-aspects of (x) have been explored?

I suppose it would.

I like the box idea I'll probably give it a try.

Hope that helps,

Mike

Hi mike,

Thanks for the reply.

This is actually a new approach (this was my first target)as I needed to calibrate myself after hitting and missing on a consistent basis (without knowing what was going wrong). I think I may have found the problem. So I think, its pretty novel and my mind wouldn't be bored (in fact, I was very excited and still am!)

I need to have an understanding of how S4 works and whether I'm screwing up my S4 in any way.

Hi RV, OK I see. Broedom isn't the problem then.

The S4 data does definately percolate up into conscious awareness as clusters of data so I don't think there is a problem there.

From what you wrote about jumbled info in S4 I would deduce that your unconscious mind is getting confused with what the target is supposed to be; the thing inside the box or the box it self.

So if you are having an issue still it maybe as simple as going too fast through the session or going to slow. I have the going to slow issue sometimes. I end up interrogating the signal line which can sometimes cause a loss of the signal by concentrating too much to try to extract every little byte of information.

-Mike

RVBL,

With a simple target like a plain glass ball you might only get one cluster of data in S4. It might look like this:

S D AI EI T I AOL AOL/S
hard
smooth
glassy
clear
.
. round
spherical
.
. bored
orb
.
boring
. AOL--UFO

Even if you're well above the 2/3 DO NOT EXCEED line on the page, if no more data comes for 3 or 4 seconds it is time to move on to the next key aspect before creative imagination starts giving you trash. With a more complicated key aspect you could get more clusters, but each cluster will still be about the same key aspect--unless you let your mind wander. Your attention shouldn't move to the next key aspect until you write your prompt: From the top of...

I don't like things in boxes. It's the kind of thing Russel Targ does for his dog and pony shows. You're good enough for more interesting things.

Thanks Chartless, that was very helpful indeed.

Ok, so now, in S4, I shouldn't be jumping from [x] to [A] unless I do the prompt from the top of... (which should only be done after S4 is finished)

If I have unintentionally ingrained this ill-disciplined habit of jumping around, how do i get back on track, because I think, in my desire to get juicy data (rookie mistake), i would jump back when doing S4(A) to S4(x) without any prompting and I have a feeling that, that is what has occured here.

How Do i fix it? I think I've screwed up unconscious programming. I have been rewatching all DVD's telling my unconscious to pay attention to Ed's every word.

Thank you for the invaluable help and posts.

The only way I can think of fixing it would be to deliberately focus and get only [x] data and to recalibrate with real world targets (it would take probably a few more sessions to fully deprogram the bad habit)

Anyone else have better suggestions?

How do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice!

Remember that we have a running 20% error rate. You are going to have some data that isn't right. So don't beat yourself up. At the end of each session do your error trapping and write a summary. Then when you get your feedback, analyze your session. Try to identify if the incorrect data is caused by analytical overlay, or by wandering attention, letting some shiny door-knob distract you, or by some error in your structure. Then congratulate yourself on the correct data and go on about your business, confident in the knowledge that unconscious will correct these problems if you don't interfere.

A lesson from the petting zoo: you can't get the turtle to come out of his shell by beating on it.

PS: Did your scanner break?

Thanks for the advice Chartless. I just completed a session, and yup data looks better now and a lot neater.

I have a question though,
Does the 20% error rate occur in S4 also or is it limited to earlier S2 percepts?

And my scanner didn't break, its just stuck in my RV box

Best regards

I can't speak for everyone, but I think it holds true for me. Sometimes better (not often!), sometimes worse (sometimes really worse!), sometimes I just can't tell, because of the lack of feedback. It's been a while since I sat down with an S4 and actually calculated the accuracy.

If you stay in structure you can trust your data. Here's an example:
last week I was in Las Vegas for the advanced RV workshop. I placed bets on four football games, using RV to pick the teams I bet on. I won money on 3 of the 4 games. Sounds like 75% correct, doesn't it? But actually, I failed to stay in structure during the session for the game I lost the bet on. For the sessions in which I stayed in structure, the decisions I made were 100% correct, even if some of the data was not.

If you invest too much of your energy into trying to achieve perfect data, your anxiety is just going to choke the life out of your RV skill. But you can achieve perfect structure. Then you can trust your data.